7520 – Resilient kids, Costco, and the good fortune of living in Champaign-Urbana – Laura Bleill

Launched in 2009, Chambanamoms.com is one of the most valuable online resources for residents in East Central Illinois — and not only for moms. In this episode Laura Bleill and I discuss masks, resilient kids, the behavior of parents in other states, her website’s top posts during the pandemic, and more.

Links

• Chambana Moms
• Chambana Seniors

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Transcript

This is an automated transcript which likely contains minor errors.

Steve Holstein:
Laura, you are uniquely qualified to talk about schools and masks and how kids are doing and families and how we’re just surviving as families, because you have a fourth grader, a seventh grader, a 10th grader. And, and do I understand they’re all in separate, all in different schools, is that right? Three different schools in sync are things so different at every school that it’s like, you’re pulling your hair out.

Laura Bleill:
The good news is, you know, this is my 11th year at Bottenfield elementary in champagne. So I’m definitely the old mom, uh, of the crew. So, you know, although we are on our, I think, fifth different principals, so there’s always something new. Um, so elementary school we had down, you know, thankfully due to my high school, or I’ve got middle school, a little bit down, a great team over at, in our middle schools here in champagne. And then, you know, we were just figuring out our way through high school. It’s really bizarre when your kid doesn’t has a year and doesn’t step foot in school. So stepping foot into school as for the first time as a sophomore is a little bit different, but, you know, we’re all just working through it. I think one thing that I’ve tried to instill in my kids and mainly just as a coping mechanism for myself as we’re just rolling with the punches and we’ll figure it out as we go along. And I think that that’s rubbed off on them. Yeah.

Steve Holstein:
You bring up a good point. Do you have a 10th grader, a sophomore? I was talking with Casey abled on the podcast a couple of weeks back about how some of the sophomores are feeling like freshmen over at the university of Illinois, uh, because they didn’t get the whole move in experience. So your 10th grader maybe didn’t get the full freshman, I’m new to high school experience.

Laura Bleill:
Definitely. And you know, it’s also interesting because just recently the school made the decision to postpone homecoming festivities. And, you know, my kiddo is just really not that, I mean, she, you know, mentioned it and it was, you know, kind of something, oh, we’re not doing this, but it wasn’t, she didn’t have that level of disappointment in her voice because frankly she doesn’t know to be disappointed. Uh, so it’s just a little bit different. Uh, you know, even the kids who did go in person last year was certainly by no means a regular year in high school. And so, yes, definitely. I mean, there’s only really one class of students. Who’s had a regular full year in high school, which was the seniors, just like the seniors at U of I are the only ones who’ve had a regular full year of classes, so to speak at, um, the U of I.

Laura Bleill:
So everybody’s kind of working through this as I told my kids, you know, when we, when we started school, I said, you know, everyone needs to take a few deep breaths. This is about the new easiest new school year ever. Um, and this, and it’s true, you know, so many things have been reset. There’s so many differences. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think though that we’re lucky to be surrounded by a community that values education, that values our kids. And I think we’re all working through this together, the best that we can. And hopefully, um, you know, if there’s, anybody’s got some extra Xanax to pass around, that’s not such a bad thing either.

Steve Holstein:
I feel like, and I, I don’t have kids in the school here in Champaign or banner, but I feel like when I watch the news or I look at social media, I think man, we are so fortunate because I see some of the things going on before school board meetings and outside of schools in other communities and other states. And I shake my head and I, I feel fortunate as a, as a community member here in east central Illinois, do you feel that way as a parent,

Laura Bleill:
I feel that we are in one of the best places that we can possibly be as a parent. And I definitely feel that way. And it felt that way all along. I mean, thanks to Julie pride, the team at CU PhD, the work that the community has done together, we are very, I don’t think people understand really the depth of the coordination and the efforts that have happened within our community. And that’s just not normal school boards across the country are being attacked. I mean, I have a friend who lives in Iowa and every day she’s talking about how fearful she is about the situation, her kid’s school. And she lives in a college town just like ours. That’s very different. Iowa city is not Champaign-Urbana. And, uh, it’s, it’s just a unique environment. And I think we’re, we probably don’t realize exactly how lucky we are until we see these other things going on around us.

Steve Holstein:
You brought up something, I want to come back to a minute ago about your freshmen, or excuse me, your sophomore now 10th grader, who didn’t have the homecoming experience in ninth grade. And so it wasn’t too disappointed about the news about there not being a homecoming this year. And I guess in a way parents throughout this pandemic are a little more uptight or maybe a little more sad or in some cases, you know, as we just discussed more angry because they did have that experience. And so they’re, they’re like I want my kid to have all these experiences that I have and I, you know, we all do. I mean, we’ve all been through that, but in some ways kids seem to be taking it better than, than the parents are.

Laura Bleill:
You can say that again, in so many different ways, our kids are resilient. Uh, you know, I, like I say this all the time on social media kids don’t care about masks. And you know, it’s the parents that are raising a ruckus about kids having to wear masks at school. Um, it’s not the kids I asked my, my kids forget about their mask being on they half the time they forget to take it off. I’m like, oh, we’re in the car. You can take it off now. I mean, it’s just become part of what they do and who they are. They don’t even think about it. It’s just like putting their socks on. So, you know, I think as parents, we need to think about that. And definitely, I think that if there’s anything that kids have learned is that they’ve had a lot of disappointments in the last, you know, 19 months or so.

Laura Bleill:
And frankly, they are the ones who are just like, it’s okay, we’ll, we’ll do something else or let’s figure out a different way to do this or whatever. And so I think that some of that is following the lead of, you know, of other people grownups in the community. But a lot of it is just because they have recognized that that’s just what they have to do to get through this. And so, um, I really admire my kids in that way. And, you know, we’ve had a lot of birthdays that have been different and a lot of times that where we couldn’t be with friends or family and, and they’ve just learned to, uh, to live with it. I love

Steve Holstein:
That. What you said, kids don’t care about masks. That’s a great point. You know, you don’t for the most, when you see a protestor on the news and there’s a kid there there’s always a parent next to them, the parent is the one who said, let’s go do this thing. And the kids there to, you know, to be a part of the family for better or for worse, but kids don’t care about masks. That is a great point.

Laura Bleill:
I really don’t. I just see, you know, and, and I, I’m not going to diminish, I’m sure there there’s of course, certain kids who just physically, or, you know, for medical reasons can not wear them. There’s always going to be, you know, the exceptions to the rule. But for the most part, I have asked kids a very little it’s very little kids. They don’t, it’s just, they don’t even remember what it’s like to not wear a mask. Uh, and so the Little’s up to, you know, through middle school, even my high schoolers don’t care now, of course, older kids, don’t like to do anything that a grown up tells them to do. So, you know, that’s a different situation, but for the, from what I’ve seen, and from what I can tell, um, from, you know, I have kids in every different level imaginable, I have friends, who’ve got kids in daycare, et cetera, kids don’t care about math.

Steve Holstein:
Well, so you are one of the founders of Shamban and moms. And so you are really in tune with moms and dads and families and kids. Um, how do you think families as a whole, as a unit have made it through, do you think families have adjusted and will stay adjusted or they just fingers crossed trying to get through this, and then it’s going to be back to normal someday?

Laura Bleill:
Well, you know, it was really interesting during those, you know, six or seven weeks where we, you know, people acted like the pandemic was over. And I think that a lot of those intuitions of people wanted to think, oh, well, we’ll just pick up and do things that feel like normal. But the reality is, is that I think that people need to recognize that they’ve trained their bodies and their minds differently, and a lot has changed. And so I think there are definitely families that are coming out of this that think that COVID was the best thing that ever happened. Maybe they’ve decided for a different way of, of life. Maybe they’ve found a better work-life balance because of working from home or homeschooling or whatever it might be. I mean, there’s definitely families in that situation. I think there are definitely families though, who have really suffered for, you know, a variety reasons of their kids.

Laura Bleill:
Kids have really suffered. I mean, kids have been somewhat sacrificial lambs here during these last, you know, look, they, we prioritize lots of things over kids being in schools. We’ve let kids atrophy in some ways. And I think that that, that educational slide is going to be something that’s definitely going to impact kids for years to come. And I think that families just need to adjust to it and understand and have patience and recognize that, you know, what, you know, yeah, this happened. And, you know, as I said to my kids, I don’t care if you don’t learn anything this year. That was last year, of course. Um, but because they learned so much other things, but now is the time, you know, where I think people are kind of getting anxious and feeling like they need to, you know, catch back up again. But I don’t think anyone really knows what that means.

Laura Bleill:
I don’t think we can underestimate how much our kids have learned over the course of this situation. It’s really a once in a hundred years situation. You know, I think it’s really interesting with, you know, different anniversaries of events come up and, you know, what was the first news of that? Or what was the most thing that, you know, what was the thing that you learned the most from? And, you know, I remember my grandparents talking about living through the depression and honestly, this that’s what this generation of kids is going to remember. I lived through COVID, I couldn’t talk to my friends. I couldn’t go to the playground. I couldn’t, uh, you know, I had to wait in food lines because there wasn’t food at school for me. And I, I, I

Steve Holstein:
Love the word resilient cause I really do. I truly believe even before you and I talked that kids are resilient. We know that there are kids who go through incredibly traumatic situations that most of us never know of in their house and their neighborhood at school. And somehow they come out the other side and they become scientists and lawyers and movie stars and all that. So I think resilient is a, as a great, is a great word. And I love that kids are just looking at this differently than adults. They just, they know we gotta go with it. We gotta be the adults because sometimes the adults can handle it. They, you know, most of us do, but sometimes kids have to be the adults and they just, they just kind of know it.

Laura Bleill:
I think that’s very true. And I think that kids are very honest. And if there’s one thing that I hope comes out of the situation is that maybe people will be that much more empathetic, realize how much, how important schools are to our communities. So the fabric of our communities to feeding our kids. So the importance of kids eating at at school. Um, I mean, I don’t, I think that that’s something that was maybe hidden, you know, by a lot of different ways as, oh, that’s just those kids or that’s just that. And I think that this, this whole situation, um, really brought out of the shadows of how much our kids are really dependent on some of these systems, you know, for sustenance and for everyday needs. And I just hope that people remember that, that these, these institutions are really important to the raising of our kids. So Shamban,

Steve Holstein:
And moms has always been, um, kind of a away from moms to connect families, to connect the, the, the family of Santana moms is connected to the community and supports community and businesses when the pandemic hit, um, did the focus of Shamban of moms shift a bit, well,

Laura Bleill:
Like other small businesses in our community. Sure. We’re not a restaurant that had to close our doors or, you know, we’re not a shop that had to shut down, but, you know, we, we worked with a lot of those businesses. And so it was a very scary time for us, um, you know, with, uh, revenues that just, you know, dried up a lot of what we do, especially spring, summer fall is promote other people’s events and get paid to promote those events. And when events stop, that’s a huge revenue stream for us. So, you know, we kind of had to figure out, okay, how can we, um, you know, thankfully we were in a, uh, a good enough financial position and, you know, our, our priority was to keep our, you know, six employees whole. And, but also our priority was okay, what can, how can we use our skills to, uh, really support the community in a ways that maybe we haven’t been doing before?

Laura Bleill:
And so a lot of it really came down to, I mean, you know, I’m a journalist by training. I worked in, uh, daily newspapers as did my husband, who’s the managing editor of Shamban a moms.com. And we just really went back to our journalistic roots and we were breaking news and compiling information that was really important to say to families, you know, what, what can we do? What can’t we do? What’s open, what’s closed. Um, how do we get the best math? How do we support local businesses that are open there’s, you know, all of that. So really that became our focus. I mean, we were churning out content for the first couple of months at a rate that was, um, pretty, uh, actually looking back on it. I somewhat in disbelief really. I think it was honestly a lot of adrenaline. And, and as I mentioned, maybe just a coping mechanism for me, but, um, it really was important to me that we use our skills and our knowledge of what’s important to our community to get that information out to them as best we could.

Laura Bleill:
And that was really our focus. And then as of course, time went on really just pivoting our content to focus on, okay, what, what can people do? How can we make the best of this for us at champion moms? One of the things that we used to do all the time was we would do in-person live chats on Facebook. So we did that with a bunch of our different clients. Um, it’s a very popular thing that we do, uh, you know, we it’s engages people and we try to make it really fun, um, both for the, for our subjects as well. And so one of the things that we were doing though instead was we were doing interviews with doctors, local doctors, how do we keep our families safe? What’s the status of the vaccine, uh, all these things, but we were able to do that all virtually through platforms like zoom, or we, we use another platform that connects more seamlessly to Facebook too.

Laura Bleill:
So we’ve definitely extended our use of technology, even though of course, everything that we do is, um, technological. One of the things though, that was a little bit of a, a bummer for us, uh, was that, you know, we really cut down a lot of the value that we provide to the community is that we do a lot of our own events. And so of course that has not happened. Actually we do have our first in-person event, of course, it’s outside, it’s social distance, uh, that we’re doing, um, upcoming. But I think that, you know, with Delta and everything, we’re, we are going to have to rethink what the kind of programming that we do, um, over the course of the winter. But again, we found ways to get people together online virtually, you know, I think that there was a, there was more of an appetite for that I think several months ago. And I think that, of course, um, you know, people kind of have moved on, but I do think that as the weather cools off and it’s not as nice outside that there will become more of an appetite for that kind of gathering again, if this continues. So, and we see no sign of a abating.

Steve Holstein:
Do you recall what your one or two most popular posts, um, in the year after the pandemic hit, do you remember what they were?

Laura Bleill:
I can tell you exactly what they were, uh, one of them. So Steve, you know, that I am the Jew who loves Christmas lights and, uh, the annual Christmas lights Roundup on champagne and moms is something that is really popular every year. But I will say that there was nothing that matched traffic, uh, like Christmas lights during a pandemic. So our Christmas lights, uh, it was just insane this year. And, um, I do do a lot of that myself. Thankfully I have lots of Christmas lights, spies all over the county and even beyond the counties. So, uh, and lots of people got really into the, uh, the spirit of the holidays, um, through lights, uh, exhibits and, you know, the champagne park district added something. So that was a really big one. Um, I think, uh, the other one actually probably was our posts about Costco opening. So we broke the news about Costco opening, and I think that was pretty much, you know, what the date it was going to open.

Laura Bleill:
And I think that was the one. So, um, but you know, I’d have to go back and look at, you know, I think that really, it was a lot of what was really popular. We had some things that just went totally viral. We had this article about a state park Mathison state park, which is next to starve rock. And I don’t know who got ahold of it or where, but basically it had thousands upon thousands of views. So, um, people really wanted to get outside. So any of our outdoor content or things that people could do safely was really, really important during the pandemic. And thankfully we have a lot of that and people who really get into it on our team. So it was easy for us.

Steve Holstein:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting too, because you know, Shamban and moms, you said you have six on the payroll, plus you have probably dozens of other moms and maybe some dads too, including your husband who, you know, are just, you know, friends of Shamban a moms. And so you’re probably always getting tips. I have thought to myself jokingly, as, as I was preparing for this interview, you know, if there were a Shamban a dads or something like it, it wouldn’t have nearly the content because when you ask a guy what’s going on, we’re like, eh, nothing, you know, we wouldn’t,

Laura Bleill:
Well, you know, that, you know, Steve, that Google analytics tells me that 40% of the readership of champion of moms.com are men not

Steve Holstein:
Surprising? You know, I know when, um, when I was on the morning show, yours was in the, you know, I had a folder of websites I opened every morning when I got into the studio before 4:00 AM and champion and moms was right there at the top because you guys often did have it wasn’t traditional breaking news necessarily, you know, but sometimes it was so you’re a great resource for, for men anyway.

Laura Bleill:
Yeah. And honestly, I’ll be honest with you, I’ve said this before, but you know, the name was a gimmick. Uh, we want to be a resource for anyone in the community that cares about, uh, families and kids, and frankly, that just cares about our community. So we are happy to be, um, to have, you know, a wide range of readership and, you know, it’s always a good thing to launch a sister site, which we did. We launched Shamban, assignors seniors.com, but probably not a great thing to do at six months before the world shuts down for seniors. So that site has been a little bit neglected, um, in the last year or so simply just because, uh, you know, we, we were, um, not able to write as much as we wanted to do about what active older adults could do in town. There

Steve Holstein:
Are Shamban and mom’s websites or similar sites. Obviously there would be a different name in other Illinois communities, or even communities like ours that are in other, other states that you keep an eye on, that you communicate with.

Laura Bleill:
Uh, funny, you should ask that I actually run a group of them, um, and have for several years. So we have a whole network of independent digital magazines for families that are just like ours. So they’re in places like Appleton Wisconsin and Arbor grand rapids, uh, Indianapolis, the woman who runs the indie with kids is probably one of my best friends. Um, so if you ever go to Indianapolis and be with kids.com is the best resource, uh, there is, but, um, but as far away, also as Australia, so we actually meet up every year. Unfortunately last year we were not able to do that. Um, but we did have, uh, we, we have meetings over a summit every year and actually a few years ago, it was in Champaign-Urbana and our friend from Australia actually came because you know what, you can take a direct flight from Sydney to Dallas and Dallas gets you right here to champagne. So, uh, that was, that was pretty fun, but yeah, Calla from coast to coast, California to, uh, uh, Virginia, a lot in the Southeast as well. And, but the heart of it really is the Midwest. So there’s a bunch of sites around Chicago, um, the Chicago area, different areas of the suburbs, um, a few one in the Rockford area, a bunch in Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, et cetera. It’s

Steve Holstein:
Kinda neat. Cause you probably share ideas, um, where if you come up with an interesting promotional idea of Christmas lights idea, contests, it’s easy to just share with these other sites and then they can take advantage of it in Appleton or India or wherever.

Laura Bleill:
Yeah. And I really do attribute a lot of, um, just the enormous growth potential that our site has had to that group. And definitely the idea sharing and the mastermind nature of that group has been fundamental to our success, but also fundamental to our abilities to serve our communities. And everybody’s community looks a little different and has a different fabric, you know, like, um, it’s been interesting, you know, back to pandemic conversation. You know, we talk a ton about vaccines on our site and there are some sites, my friends in the Southeast who were like, we won’t touch that with a 10 foot pole. So it’s just interesting how everybody’s community is a little bit different and what they’re, what they will broach and what they, what topics they feel is appropriate for their family. Um, you know, digital magazine to touch. So, um, but yeah, we, we definitely were cranking out a lot of information and I think we all watch one another, what one another do and share. And that’s really what we do at our summit every year is share our best practices. So from social media to the websites, to video content, et cetera. So

Steve Holstein:
It would seem like with sites like Shamban a moms and Facebook groups and YouTube, uh, you know, instructional videos and tips, it would seem like while parenting wouldn’t be easier, there would be more support and more answers. Is that, is that a safe way to say it because you never want to say that parenting has gotten easier over the years, but the resources are more available.

Laura Bleill:
Yes, I would say that. Um, I would say there’s also a lot of garbage out there and unfortunately, unfortunately, you know, we made a very, um, a very pivotal decision, I would say probably about four, three or four years into the website to really dig into what we know best, which is local resources. And so you’re not gonna see a lot of generic parenting information on our website. What you’ll see is if it’s something that has a local angle or that it’s really important to east central Illinois or Champaign-Urbana that, that’s what you’ll see on our site, because that’s what we know and that’s what we can do. Um, and we’ll leave some of that more general parenting stuff to other places. There’s been a lot of websites, you know, I’ve been doing this a long time and was connected, you know, in the early days of what they called mommy blogs and things like that.

Laura Bleill:
And a lot of those sites have gone away. They’ve gone under or shifted or pivoted, um, in significant ways or been bought out by larger content, uh, you know, creators or larger organizations. And so, um, it’s gotten a little bit more muddled. I’d like to, I’d love to say that back in the day, there was a lot more storytelling that was available to people a lot more, um, personal sort of, uh, you know, and maybe people are doing that now in blogging or, you know, even on Tik TOK videos. But, um, I would say though that it’s, it’s a bit more muddled now. And so I do think that people do struggle sometimes to find what they would call quality information, um, about parenting online. And so my hope is we can at least direct them to some quality information, resources, even if we’re not the direct resource.

Steve Holstein:
Do you remember, I asked about your most popular posts during the pandemic. What year did champion moms launch?

Laura Bleill:
Uh, 2009, November of 2009, 2009.

Steve Holstein:
Do you remember your first post and who wrote it?

Laura Bleill:
Um, it was me, uh, yeah, it was, uh, so basically we wrote a welcome post and then I think one of the other first posts was me and the, my co-founder at the time. So my co-founder, she left the company in 2013. So, um, but we did a interview with our moms was one of our first articles and it’s not there anymore. Um, I actually have gone through in the last, uh, you know, I, I kept a lot of that stuff. I think there was a lot of nostalgia around up in the last few years. I’ve really purged a lot of our early content because frankly, like I said, it really didn’t have it. It really didn’t augment the local stuff. Okay. So

Steve Holstein:
On that note, let me, let me wrap it up with this. Then let’s say somebody has an idea for a blog and you say, oh, I’m going to do, uh, I’m into running and walking. So I’m going to do a champagne or maybe Illinois based walking, running blog. What advice would you have for that person? Maybe they’re not into it for the money, but they do want it to be successful and popular and be taken seriously.

Laura Bleill:
Um, I think what I would say is do it on your own terms. I think that one of the things that I know that I got caught up into, you know, I had a blog before Shamban and moms, and I think that I got caught up in the idea that other people had all these expectations of me and what I should be writing and how often I should be writing. And really, I, I was too naive at that point to understand that I needed to set the boundaries or it would fail. And so that’s really, I think one of my most important messages is say, do it for you and do it as it is. It is meaningful for you. And don’t worry about what anybody else thinks, because once you get to that point, then it will become work and it becomes rote and you’ll resent it. That’s great. And there’s a lot of decaying blogs out there. Yeah.

Steve Holstein:
I mean, I, you know, with this podcast, obviously, um, um, my goal is to do something every week and talk to somebody interesting. Somebody that’s got information. I have a content company that I started back in the nineties that creates content for radio stations, which is how a lot of what we used on my morning show came from that service. You know, the consistency is key. I’m sure that you’ve noticed that you know, where in the beginning, especially if you didn’t post something for a little bit, visitorship drops a bit and people go, where’d you, where’d you go, are you a, are you a fly by night? What’s

Laura Bleill:
Going on? And there’s also, you know, so many different platforms now. I mean, you know, we were, we benefited from what I like to call the democratization of the internet, which was, you know, wizzy wig, you know, platforms that allow people to self publish without knowing how to code or et cetera. And so, but there’s so many other options out there that include, you know, people use Instagram as their, you know, platform of, or their diaries, or maybe it’s like you said, YouTube, or it could be, um, Tik TOK or, you know, um, there’s other platforms as well that, um, are really just a little bit more, maybe more accessible to some people for different reasons and less of a chore, so to speak. So, you know, think about what you like to do, whether it’s, you know, I mean, I love to write, I mean, that’s my background. So writing to me will never be, um, work it’s fun. It’s pleasure. And it’s what I, what I’m most passionate about funny thing is though, is that I found through Shamban a moms that I’m actually really good at talking to people, uh, live in digital platforms, which I had no idea. So you never know what skills sets you’ll figure out that you have, that you didn’t realize you’ve

Steve Holstein:
You brought it up, uh, you know, platforms like YouTube and Instagram and Tik TOK. They’re SU they’re super for creating even good quality content pretty quickly, because so much of what you’ll see is somebody sitting in their car, talking into their camera, they’re delivering some, uh, you know, I’ve gotten some really good information about the pandemic from doctors who have just gotten off of a shift they’ll reveal some study that they learned through some journal

Laura Bleill:
And, and, you know, things can get comp. I mean, once things get complicated, it really is important to think about those platforms, because I think people don’t realize that you know, what they own and what they don’t own. So if you, if ownership of content is really something that’s critical to you, or like, as you mentioned monetization, then that needs to be a much further conversation and something that’s really examined more closely. I mean, you know, we own our content on champion moms.com. Um, but we don’t own our Facebook page. And in many ways I treat them as almost two separate entities. So it’s, uh, it’s an interesting game.

Steve Holstein:
Yeah. Don’t build on rented land, I think is the popular saying, because Facebook, if it someday goes away or YouTube, doesn’t like something that you posted in bands you for a week or two or whatever then, then, and if that’s the only place you’re publishing, then you’re in trouble.

Laura Bleill:
Yeah. Facebook Dale, isn’t fun

Steve Holstein:
While with Shamban and moms. Uh, thanks. I really appreciate you taking the time to, uh, to talk to me on the podcast here. It’s been very informative and keep doing what you’re doing. It’s just a fantastic community.

Laura Bleill:
Well, thank you so much. And thanks for all that you do for the community and have done in the past. And I’m grateful that you took the time and interest in the work that we do. So I’m here anytime and happy to come back anytime too. So thanks much Steve.